Author Topic: Holy Grail?  (Read 316 times)

Offline wstagner

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Holy Grail?
« on: May 10, 2013, 08:34:31 am »
All this talk of "chasing" the Holy Grail of Bob Bogle's WDR or Hank Marvin's "that sound" what about the drum sound on those early toons of both?  Neither Tony Mehan (Shad's 1st drummer) nor Howie Johnston (Ventures 1st drummer) are around to tellus what or how it was done.  Brian Bennett sounds nothing like Tony and Mel, Joe Barile, and now Leon sound nothing like Howie.

So, how is the Holy Grail to be achieve w/o capturing the "original" drum sound?  If Holy Grail is the end game, the drummer, the drums used, or any related equipment cannot be left oota the equation.

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Offline tabalt11

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Re: Holy Grail?
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2013, 10:53:15 am »
You're exactly right Walt.   Howie preferred a lot of
rimshots & it didn't matter whether he was using
the snare or the toms.   Also what may have
also been overlooked in his playing was
his tendency while playing the beat
to- for want of a better term,
SLERVE his sticks.   

Yes we heard the da da, da twist beat but he
incorporated 'that little extra' with the one hand!

However, prowess-wise I don't think he measured up
to any of his successors.   The distinction he did receive
was that 'those early albums' are often considered by fans
to be the very best from their vast inventory & his impeccable
timing made it all possible.

Offline wstagner

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Re: Holy Grail?
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2013, 11:40:48 am »
Tom, sadly I don't think we'll ever no about his powess since he was only on the early records and there are no recordings of him posted anywhere I'm aware of other than his ventures records. 
Howie, Mel, Joe, Leon brot their own u neek sound 2 the V.

U hav said b4 that u thot Joe injected a bretha fresh err to the groop after Mel left in 72.  I agree w/that.  Howie, Mel and Leon wer/R snarecentric.  Joe was mr. tomtom. ;D

Offline wstagner

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Re: Holy Grail?
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2013, 01:03:51 pm »
Why has no 1 ever axed what kinds drums or stix Howie used? The same for other V drummers.
I'd say that no 1 thinx it matters and/or cares?

Don/Bob were newbie geetar players early on.  Howie, Mel, and Joe were all experienced drummers.  Who were their influences?  We know that Mel played on Monster Mash and Jan Davis' Fugitive.  Who'd he play with b4 that?

Does any 1 reely no watt tyme it is? ;D

Offline abstamaria

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Re: Holy Grail?
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2013, 07:29:33 am »
I am curious what drums they used in the early days.  I am sure that was the basic set, with just a single mounted tom and one cymbal (we didn't distinguish between crash and ride in thiose days).  There is a discussion now on the Shadows forum on the correct cymbals for that old sound. 

Andy

Offline wstagner

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Re: Holy Grail?
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2013, 10:56:09 am »
I'll bet Leon Taylor nose.


Offline Stix

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Re: Holy Grail?
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2013, 01:29:18 pm »
Ok, so I am late to this party but still I am glad to be here.
 I play drums in the GWG Band with Walt. I want to address a couple of things here with regards to the "Holy Grail" string from earlier (much earlier).
A lot of drummers especially in cover style bands look to duplicate certain sounds much like a guitarist would try to emulate a particular sound. It is very difficult with more modern-day drums to duplicate the way that old vintage drums sound. Sure there are little tuning tricks that we can do to get closer but, as you guitar gods know a Mosrite just "sounds" like a Mosrite and a Fender Stratocaster sounds like a Strat and does not sound like a Mosrite or a Gibson.
The older drums were built with different precision, different materials and different technology. I find that trying to get the exact Mel Taylor sound out of my current day Yamaha Stage Custom kit is really a waste of time because it will never get there. Just like you would never get a Les Paul-Gibson to get to sound like a Strat. All that being said, for me its more about paying homage to the style and spirit of the music and the way it was played more so than trying to duplicate the exact sound. Now, if money was no object for me, I would definitely welcome a good old vintage set of Gretch Champagne Sparkle drums to bang on with the boys and I would bet the sound would be a heck of a lot closer than what I am getting now. Hmmmmmm Christmas is only a few days away.

Stix Out 8)

Offline wstagner

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Re: Holy Grail?
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2013, 02:24:08 pm »
Welcome, Stix.
Agree with all your statements.
Over in the Shadows 4um, people argue/bicker over Hank's sound all the time.
Many Ventures fans PREFER the Mosrite sound (Nokie) or Bob's Jazzmaster sound.
Fortunately, there are relatively recent recordings of those things to get a sound "bead" on.

If you had a time machine and could bring back all that old stuff to today, MAYBE that exact sound could be recreated.
Most of my guitars now have noiseless pickups and I'll never return to the single coils....just can't stand the hum.

Also, even the so-called live early Ventures recordings...we suspect some of them aren't even live.  We know that the USA release ON STAGE was recorded "live" in the studio so who knows 4sure what The VEntures sounded like live back in 1965.

Those looking 4 the holy grail will remain disappointed.  Those of us who play in the spririt of the genre will help the music live on.

Offline tabalt11

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Re: Holy Grail?
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2013, 02:33:57 pm »
A lot of the album covers showed Mel using Gretch
drums but later he switched to Slingerland.   His sets
looked 'their best' when he visited Japan for the tours,
he may have 'on occasion' been surrounded by 'almost'
two complete sets.   They were obviously 'donated' by the
Japanese for the duration of the tour!   

I'm gonna try to 'roust' Tom Connolly here to join in as he
would have 'more particulars' on Howie & Joe's drum kit
preference!   

Offline wstagner

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Re: Holy Grail?
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2013, 02:52:03 pm »
It's un4chewnate we can't get Leon involved here.  I'm sure he nose things that only he/Mel wood no.

However, the fact remains that those people chasing the holy grail will remain unsatisfied.