Author Topic: Gringo....who plays what?  (Read 483 times)

Offline chuckm

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Gringo....who plays what?
« on: March 07, 2012, 02:15:48 pm »
Hi Everyone,
So, I’ve been trying to do some archeology on Gringo.  This is the tune written by Gene Moles on the Twist album….and supposedly recorded by Gene and Nokie?    I’ve been trying to figure out who plays on it and in particular who plays the solos.     I’ve just finished scribbling down the tab for this song and will post it here as soon as I can put it into postable format.

Anyway….this is what I’ve been able to dig up….Anyone have any further info or comments?
Thanks
Chuck

Taken from Walk Don’t Run…The Story of the Ventures
Jan 1960    Gene Moles moves to Tacoma and meets Nokie.   They started jamming and writing together.
They went to Seattle and recorded Night Run (Nokie lead, Gene rhythm, Nokie bass) and Scratch (Gene lead, Nokie bass) at Joe Boles’  studio. (Bill Graham on drums)    They called themselves the Marksman when the records were released.  Night Train got airplay on Dick Clark show.
After this success they wrote and recorded Gringo and Sunny River. (Gringo writing credit is given to Gene)

Gene recalls playing Gringo for a Ventures session…neither Don nor Bob remember  Gene being on any of their sessions.

Gene and family were living with Nokie and his wife for a few weeks when Gene moved to Ventura. While Nokie was out Gene gets a call from Josie to do some recording.  Sometime thereafter (not sure how long) they are recording at the Liberty  building with Tommy Allsup (guitar) and Muddy Berry (drums).    It seems to allude that Nokie was there as well.   They recorded Gringo and Sunny River.
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So, from this do we conclude that Gene and Nokie recorded Gringo with Muddy Berry on drums?   Who played which guitar parts?



But, from Malcolm Campbell’s Shadows website:
http://www.malcolmcampbell.me.uk/
he has a book on the Ventures: Driving Guitar  (free download)

http://www.malcolmcampbell.me.uk/book6/download/book6-file04.pdf

It claims that Nokie  plays lead and Don plays rhythm….no source given.

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Offline wstagner

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Re: Gringo....who plays what?
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2012, 03:00:25 pm »
Color me  :o if Nokiemeister isn't playing leed on BOTH toons.  When he played w/us a few years ago, he new both toons w/o blinkin an I.

On SRT (sunnrivertwist), he actually played the harmony leed rather than the main leed, cept for the solo part.

Offline Instroman

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Re: Gringo....who plays what?
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2012, 03:10:13 pm »
Well, Chuck, I guess that no matter how much information we get, there will always be little mysteries. 
While working on the book, I often ran into faded memories as well as instances where I felt that facts were being purposely withheld, especially when I got two different stories of the same event. It then boils down to "who you gonna believe?"   It's easy for the guys to say they don't remember Gene on a session, but they readily admit that there are many, many things that they don't remember after all this time.  They also wonder sometimes why we really care about all those details.
Just imagine if YOU had played on one Ventures session. I'm sure you would remember that for the rest of your life. Meanwhile, the Ventures had so many stand-ins and substitutes that they could never be expected to remember them all.  Such was the case of Don Markham who remembers playing bass on the Perfidia session while Nokie was on National Guard duty. It's something he never forgot, but as it became a big hit, the Ventures conveniently "don't remember" Markham on it.  Furthermore, the Joe Boles studio log show Markham signing in at about the same time as the session.
I talked to him face to face, and he struck me as a sincere fellow who had no reason to make something like that up.  With his sax and trumpet, he has obtained fame and fortune on his own.
So, we can believe who we choose, but we will never know for sure about many such mysteries. 

Rock on,
Del

Offline abstamaria

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My guess is neither Bob nor Nokie
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2012, 05:35:04 pm »
There are some pieces on the Ventures' early records whose style sounded to me so different from either Bob's or Nokie's.  Gringo is one of them.

Although we Ventures fans say "it was common in the industry," the practice of passing off pieces played by session artists (however good they may be) as by the "Ventures" seems to me dishonest. It was like a franchising operation, with us buying records by people we didn't know. Although the confirmation that session guitarists were sometimes wholly used answered questions I had about differing styles and sounds, it still came as a disappointment to me. I was duped.

Andy.   

Offline wstagner

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Re: Gringo....who plays what?
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2012, 07:32:12 pm »
Nokie told me he wrote the toon, so I'd assume he played it.
Not to mention the faact that like I said, wen we playit w/him he played it better than the original.

The record/CD gives writing credit to Gene Moles, but I'm certain Nokie was imtimatelee involve w/this toon.
Besides Nokey/Jean Moles were almost brothers! ;D
« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 07:59:47 pm by wstagner »

Offline Instroman

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Re: Gringo....who plays what?
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2012, 12:57:22 am »
Yes, Andy, but  I don' think it's the fault of our heroes. With instrumental music, it's pretty easy to dupe the listeners if the producers can find suitable substitute(s).  Case in point is the Dolton "On Stage" album from 1965.  We thought we had the real thing, but it was just another studio recording which our guys were coerced into doing.  Even when I noticed the recurring whistle from the audience at exact 12 second intervals, I still believed it to be "live" with some added applause for effect. There was a lot of dishonesty in the music business in the '60s. Maybe there still is? I have no idea.

Del

Offline abstamaria

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Re: Gringo....who plays what?
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2012, 09:42:24 am »
You're right, Del.  I remain a big fan and am trying earnestly to play just Bogle or Nokie.  I am just more careful now as to which Ventures piece to cover!

Best,

Andy   

Offline wstagner

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Re: Gringo....who plays what?
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2012, 10:18:40 am »
Live dangerously, Andy.  Try some of Gerry's stuff 2.  Mix up all 3 styles in same toon.  That will confuse every 1. ;D

Offline oldflogger

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Re: Gringo....who plays what?
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2012, 10:40:59 am »
A great thread. Thanks to all for contributing.

Rich Miller

Offline abstamaria

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Re: Gringo....who plays what?
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2012, 06:44:56 pm »
Haha, Walt.  Will do.  I'll get there some day!

Best,

Andy


Offline chuckm

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Re: Gringo....who plays what?
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2012, 09:53:48 am »
OK...I finally learned how to play this and have tabbed it all out.   I posted the tab in the Tabs and Chords section of this forum.   I think it is pretty close but my tab skills are not the best, so I may have not tabbed it correctly in some places (like the solos)  but it is in the ball park so you should get the hang of it.  My fingers had to become a bit more nimble than they usually are to play this...but it is a fun number.

I'd appreciate any feedback, corrections or perfections.

thanks
chuckm