Author Topic: THE VENTURES – WALK DON’T RUN (Which amp)?  (Read 2274 times)

Offline abstamaria

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THE VENTURES – WALK DON’T RUN (Which amp)?
« on: May 09, 2013, 09:09:20 pm »
The equivalent in the Ventures World of the Shadows’ Apache is of course “Walk Don’t Run, recorded coincidentally also in 1960 (more precisely on March 22, 1960).  We know that Bob Bogle, the Ventures’ lead guitarist then, used a Fender Jazzmaster, probably with thick flatwounds, but which amplifier did he use?

Del Halterman, in his fairly recent, excellent  book “Walk Don’t Run,” described the session at Joe Boles’ basement studio, describing which amplifiers Boles used to mic the amps.  On the amplifiers, Halterman wrote:

“On March 22, the group arrived at the Boles’ home with three amplifiers, (Fender models Vibrolux and Bassman, and a Gibson AG-40).”

In the book, Halterman says that Nokie Edwards, who played bass, used the Bassman, which is logical.  But which of the two amps – the Gibson and the Fender – did Bob Bogle use?  Halterman doesn’t say.

Halterman doesn’t state the source for his information on the amps.  That could have been interviews of the Ventures.  Joe Boles died in 1962, and I am not sure if any studio records survived. 
 
Andy

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Offline wstagner

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Re: THE VENTURES – WALK DON’T RUN (Which amp)?
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2013, 09:44:18 pm »
Andy....
Del lurks around this forum sometimes, so maybe pose your specific question(s) to him and see if he answers you.  I understand that much of the info in Del's great book came from Don Wilson.  But, he could probably tell you more about that 2.

I've said b4 that much of the V early sound was a result of the Fender JM and I stand by that.  Amps can add something to the sound but those were simpler times.  Try getting that JM sound out of any guitar with the neck/bridge pups together and it just ain't hapnin.

I'm sure Jeff Green of the Pickniks wood agree w/me on that.

Here's an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A6x1Hi-RAk&list=PLkBe9XRqc5RnyPUlIy_lNfSbQxGlmjNDr&index=12

Offline abstamaria

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Re: THE VENTURES – WALK DON’T RUN (Which amp)?
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2013, 09:51:42 pm »
Thanks, Walt.  That's a great sound.

This is just a matter of historical interest to me.  The Shadows buffs know the which type tube was in the amplifier that Hank Marvin used for Apache (no kidding), but we Ventures fans don't even know what amp Bob Bogle used for that very important first piece. 

I started this thread here, although there is a discussion in UF2, just so whatever information people contribute, or their views, will be preserved hopefully and easy to access and update in the future.

Best,

Andy

Offline wstagner

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Re: THE VENTURES – WALK DON’T RUN (Which amp)?
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2013, 09:55:00 pm »
I guess we'll all have to wait for Nokie's book.   ;D

Offline abstamaria

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Or a Fender Twin?
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2013, 10:46:27 pm »
In an interview of Bob Bogle by Willie Moseley that appeared in the May 1997 issue of Vintage Guitar Magazine, Bob didn’t mention either the Fender Vibrolux or Gibson GA40.  Instead, Bob said he used a Fender Twin (he and Don Wilson had been using a Fender Twin as their sole amp in the several months leading to the recording of WDR):

VG:  “I presume you played your Fender Jazzmaster on the original version of the Venture’ “Walk, Don’t Run.”  Can you tell me what kind of amplifier you used?”

BB:  “As far as I know, I bought what was probably the first Jazzmaster that hit Seattle.  I used a Fender Twin amp, with two twelves, on “Walk, Don’t Run.”  At that time, I also had a one-piece Fender Bassman amp that had four tens in it.  I gave that Jazzmaster to a friend of mine in Los Angeles; he still has it.”

This is of course inconsistent with Del Halterman's 2009 book and adds yet another possible amp to the mix.

Andy

Offline wstagner

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Re: THE VENTURES – WALK DON’T RUN (Which amp)?
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2013, 08:26:32 am »
Unless there's written documentation (ie studio notes) I wouldn't take anything as gospel.  I can't remember what I did yesterday, let alone 40 years ago! ::)

Offline abstamaria

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Re: THE VENTURES – WALK DON’T RUN (Which amp)?
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2013, 11:10:09 am »
That's true, Walt.  For that reason, there is probably little point in asking Nokie and Don, but I wish someone would anyway.

I wonder what Del's source was. Joe Boles died in 1962.

Andy   

Offline wstagner

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Re: THE VENTURES – WALK DON’T RUN (Which amp)?
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2013, 11:26:50 am »
I think I said that I herd that Don was a major source in Del's book.

Offline abstamaria

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Re: THE VENTURES – WALK DON’T RUN (Which amp)?
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2013, 08:09:08 pm »
Thanks, Walt.  If so, then Bob and Don seem to have had different recollections.  However, Del's book is quite detailed, with mic models and so forth, so the impression I have is that Del was relying on written records.  I wish Del would clarify.

Andy

Offline abstamaria

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Or Bob Bogle could have used a Gibson!
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2013, 08:13:21 pm »
One of the three candidates for the revered position of Bob Bogle’s lead amp for the historic 1960 recording of Walk Don’t Run is a Gibson GA40.  According to Del Halterman’s book, a GA 40 was brought to the session along with the Fender Vibrolux.

The GA40 was the partner amp to Gibson’s flagship solidbody electric, the Les Paul. It is not a 40-watt amp as the name might suggest; a pair of lower-powered 6V6 output tubes put out a conservative 14 to 16-watts.  The GA-40 has an unusual "pentode" preamp section - meaning it has five functional elements other than the three of the standard 12AX7 dual-triode—called a 5879. The 5879 sounds nothing like the 12AX7 found in Fender’s amps.  It is compared more to the early Vox AC15s with pentode preamps, but probably has a completely different tone as well.

GA-40s with two-tone covering made between 1956 and ’59 are generally the most desirable, because they have the preferred circuit and tube configuration.  The Gibson site says “Part of what’s so groovy about this amp is that it is nothing like any of the Fender designs from the same era that have become such classics.”

I always assumed that Bob Bogle either used the Fender Twin Amp or, if our choices are truly limited to a Fender Vibrolux and the Gibson GA40, then the Vibrolux.  To suggest Bob Bogle used a Gibson is like suggesting Hank Marvin of the Shadows used a Fender Twin for Apache.  But then again a GA40 might just be the essential component to Bob’s also-elusive Walk Don’t Run sound.


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Offline wstagner

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Remember at that time, there were few amp choices available.  What was there besides fender/gibson?
National? Magnatone? They prolly brot the gibsun as a spare or sumthin. ;)

Offline Gandy Dancer

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Re: THE VENTURES – WALK DON’T RUN (Which amp)?
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2013, 10:55:56 am »
The consensus on UF was that Bob probably used the Gibson but another factor was Joe Boles' manipulation of the recording which was quite extensive according to everyone involved that's still with us.

Offline wstagner

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Re: THE VENTURES – WALK DON’T RUN (Which amp)?
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2013, 07:02:33 pm »
Nexx time some 1 sees Nokie, they should axes him.
He's gotta great memory.
After all, he members how to play all doze toons he's not played 4 50 years! ;D